In this insightful episode of Epic Begins With 1 Step Forward, Zander sits down with men’s coach Stefanos Koutsoumpis, who helps men break free from burnout, depression, and the illusion of success. Stefanos shares his personal journey—from achieving academic and professional milestones, including a PhD and corporate career, to realizing that external success didn’t create internal happiness. Together, they explore why so many men chase goals that leave them feeling empty, the importance of understanding emotions, and how mindfulness and coaching can transform the way we experience life. Stefanos reveals that true fulfillment comes not from reaching the finish line, but from how we show up every day. This episode is a powerful reminder to stop chasing “someday” happiness and start creating it right now.
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Success Didn’t Make Him Happy—So He Changed Everything With Stefanos Koutsoumpis
I have got another one of my wonderful international guests, all the way from Athens, Greece. I have Stefanos Koutsoumpis. I probably butchered that up. You could correct me, but tell us who you are and what you do, Stefanos.
Well done. Thank you, Zander, for having me here. I am Stefanos Koutsoumpis. I am a men’s coach in Greece. I help men to feel happier and to flourish in their lives, and get away from depression and burnout.
You grew up in Greece. Tell us a little about how you got to where you are today.
Stefanos’s Background And Career Pivot
I have a diverse background and a diverse journey. I had a zillion hobbies in my life and a zillion interests. I have always loved to learn since I was a small child. I grew up in a family of four boys, and at eighteen, I decided to study physics. I ended up doing a PhD and working for a couple of years as a researcher before pivoting to corporate and project management, where I worked for a couple of years as an IT project manager.
At some point in my journey and through searching for my own meaning and for my own flourishing, I found mindfulness, and I found coaching, and I totally fell in love with those two tools, and they worked on me. I said, “Let us give it a try. Let us see if other men will also have the benefits.” This is what I am doing now. I am teaching the skills that helped me be happier.
Look, happiness is so important. I am a firm believer, and my life is an example of if something is not working for you and you realize it, try to change it because, honestly, life is way too short not to be happy. That is not to put some pie-in-the-sky, happy-rainbow dream. We all have realities of what our lives are. However, for me, embracing change, doing things that sometimes I have absolutely no idea how I am going to do, has made all the difference.
I have had many jobs over the years, and some that if you told me in university, I would say, “No, I would never do that.” I worked for 22 years in the tech world. At one point, I was a quality assurance software engineer and a software developer. I did not study these things. It is just that I believe in myself, and I can learn. I did, though I was not particularly good as a software developer. That is why I stopped doing it.
For you on your journey, Stefanos, what were some of those moments where you realized you were not happy? I am, as a psychologist, I am like, I know that there are things that our unconscious mind knows way before our conscious mind. Sometimes it may be if you are in a relationship that is not working. When you finally realized that you actually knew it way before the moment that you actually became aware of it. You understand what I am saying?
The Fallacy Of External Success Bringing Happiness
Yeah, of course. It was not a specific moment that this thing happened, and it happened gradually, and it happened in steps. When I was less than eighteen, I thought, “I need to have a good job. I need to have some money, I need to have a girlfriend, and then I will be happy.” Once I got to do this, which was around 23, I said, “It is not enough. This is not life. Something more is out there.” I had more friends, I had more girlfriends, and I had a better job.
I had some recognition at some point in my life because I was a scientist, I was publishing my results, and people would know me. It still did not feel like being happy. I continued searching, and searching more and more. At some point, I realized that maybe others think that my life might be epic, might look like that because I seem to have my s*** together. I seem to have fun, but I do not really feel like that. It was something that was happening and was building gradually over the years.
I was trying to solve all these things that I thought that they were the problems. I was trying all those years to change my environment, change all the external circumstances. It did not help, actually. I think around 27, it was the worst period in my life. I was at the peak of my life until that moment. Internally, it felt totally like s***.
I took a step back, and I looked at it as a scientist. “Something is not working in this experiment. I need to change some of the parameters. What if those changes that I have to do are not in the environment, but they are inside of me?” This is where I got a glimpse that there might be something different out there or inside there that will give me a glimpse of hope.
I do totally agree that we all buy into the fallacy that, “When I get my degree, when I have a job, if I am in a relationship, if I have this, I have my own apartment, then I will be happy.” What we find is that temporarily, you might be really excited when you get your first apartment, and you are like, “I am living on my own, look at this.”
That is not actually what happiness is. I know that through some of the things I have achieved in my life, it took a while. Let us congratulate you on earning your PhD. I earned my master’s and was very excited about that. I was old enough when I earned my master’s that I realized that was a destination. It was not the end of the road. It was not the end of it.
Having done some running and stuff when I finished my first marathon, it was awesome. About a half hour later, I was like, “Now what?” You earned your PhD. You are like, “This is great.” It is, not taking anything away. You are like, “It does not end right there.” Especially for men, we see them go, “I have to be successful. I have to have all of these things.”
There is a misinterpretation of how we look at things. Let us take, for example, the marathon example, because it is one that is easy to understand. It is similar to all the other things that we are doing in our lives. Doing your master’s thesis is a marathon. It takes some years, and then there is a milestone of finishing it. If you do not enjoy running day after day, it does not matter if you finish the marathon or not, because you will not be happy the moment of finishing, or this will not last long.
If you enjoy day after day of exercising, this is a real payoff. This is something that we are missing when we are chasing after goals. For some people, for example, we have as a goal, men, our work, because we get some kind of recognition. If you go to your work day after day and work really, really hard, the payoff at the end of that journey will be actually more work, more responsibility, more of that.
Others will say that, “Zander really enjoys this work. Let us give it some more time because he is good at it, and he loves it. This is what he wants. This is what he does every day. This is how other people understand us.” If we do not enjoy what we are doing day after day, this is what we will get in the end. If you are trying to be good at anything, this is the payoff that you get in the end. You might get some recognition, you might get some payoff in financial means, but it does not really matter. The real payoff is doing more of what you were doing in the first place.
If you don’t enjoy what you do day after day, that’s often the real payoff. You may gain recognition or financial reward, but the deeper return is simply doing more of the same work.
The fact of the matter is, no matter what we do, most of the time, we start doing something because it is interesting to us. When you have to do it repeatedly day after day, month after month, year after year, sometimes it does not get quite as fun. You were talking about running. Running is great. There comes a point where you are like, “I need to take a break. I do not want to go for a run today. I would like to go try something else.”
That is part of human evolution, which is to say, once I have mastered something, it is great that I mastered it, but I want to keep developing. Let me now have a new journey to learn how to do road biking, play guitar, or whatever. I find it interesting. My whole life, my brain has thought about psychology and observed why something. I see something, I will be around people, I will see a relationship, I will see someone, and then I start to wonder.
“Why Stefanos? What does he not seem happy? On paper, he has had success. He has got to pay. He has got that.” What I realized was that, although money does make life a lot easier and stuff, it really does not bring happiness. It can bring temporary happiness. You are like, “I have money so I can now travel and explore this country,” and that is great, and that is awesome. However, I believe that sometimes the people who make the most money actually are the most unsatisfied because all of their time goes into work.
I have friends of mine who went and worked on Wall Street and are so much more financially successful than me. However, when I hang out with them, they are working 80 or 100 hours a week. They go on vacation, but they do not really go on vacation. They are out of the office, but they are still taking phone calls. They are still answering emails. They cannot stop. Whereas I go on vacation, I am on vacation. I want to enjoy where I just paid, where I am paying to be exactly.
At the end of that journey of work, there is more work even during your vacation.
Is that happiness? I do not think so. There are all kinds of studies where they talk to people who have different kinds of jobs. Sometimes, the jobs that you think, “Is that person happy?” “Yeah. Look, my job is my job. Do I love it every day? No. It pays the bills, but I have time to be with my family. I have time to hang out with my friends. I have time to pursue the things that actually fill my bucket that make me feel good about myself.”
In my book, I talk about how you need to be your number one cheerleader. You have to believe in yourself. The success you have had came because you believe in yourself. “I had a good idea that if I feel this way, other men probably feel similar.” That is a pretty good bet. Look, there are a couple of billion people on the earth. If you think that you alone are the only one who has that feeling, maybe you need to come see me, and we can talk about why you think you are the only one in the world who feels this way.
There really are more. If you feel it, other people do. It is like in school. If you raised your hand and asked a question in the classroom, I guarantee there was at least one other person who had that same question. Someone else who goes, “I do not really understand Bernoulli’s principle. I am sorry. Can you explain that again?” I guarantee someone in your class is like, “Yeah, I too did not fully get that.” How do you help other men find fulfillment?
Men’s Struggle With Inner World And Emotions
Men are really result-oriented, where we are looking at the goal, and we get there. We are good at that. We have not been taught, actually, to understand our inner world and our emotions. This is a crucial part that we are missing. This is why most of us miss our goals, feel miserable or procrastinate, or feel indifferent in life. We cannot really understand why we are doing something. “Am I enjoying this, friend? Am I enjoying this wife? Am I enjoying this life?” We cannot really tell. We have never been taught to listen to how we feel about things. This is not true about all men, but maybe it is true about 90% of us.
Men are often highly results-oriented—they focus on the goal and getting things done. What they’re not taught is how to understand their inner world and emotions.
It is what society tells us. We have to be strong. We have to be successful. We have to be stoic.
Never really get upset, but this is not how human beings really are.
Not at all.
The fact is, people will talk about men and women, and it is true there. There are some different ways that men think about stuff and women think about stuff. Years ago, I heard a comedian here in the United States, Jeff Foxworthy, say this. I was like, “He really nailed it.” He is like, “I go out, and I hang out with my buddies.” My wife says, “What did you do?” and I tell her the activities I did. She goes out, and she talks not about where they went, but what they talked about.
“Men talk about what they do. Women talk about what they are talking about, how they feel about it.” That is a fundamental, and it is true. Yes, we are all capable of feeling, but I think sometimes the societal story that we may buy into is that “I have to be stoic. I have to do this.” Maybe we question that and go, “Do I want to buy that?” Do I want to say, “I want a little more balance?” The fact of the matter is, men feel deeply.
I am trying, and I am getting this a lot from men I speak with. We are running men’s groups, so we are having men come in distress and asking them, “How was your day? What happened today?” They are all about details and “How do you feel about this?” Still, they are sharing details about facts, what happened. Again, for the third time, “How did you feel about that?” They still cannot really answer it because they have never answered this question before.
It is a novel question. It is something they have never really answered, and it takes some learning, a lot of time, and a lot of self-reflection. This is, for example, why I love meditation because it gives you some time to sit, self-reflect, and understand that, “I might be feeling a bit uneasy today. I might be feeling excited about this. I have never really tapped into those things before because emotion tends to be subtle.”
Things we do not know tend to be subtle. If you have never looked at the body language or the expressions of someone, then body language will be subtle for you. If you are an FBI agent, then it is not subtle. They are screaming. It is the same once you learn to hear your emotions. They are screaming at you, and they are giving you so much information, and they are such a good tool to make fast decisions and right decisions.
Again, talking about just human beings as a whole, our development is about, first of all, there is what we will call the gut feeling, that intuitive thing. The fact of the matter is, we have these really amazing brains in our heads. We are using what, like 10% of it; geniuses are using 12%. I certainly am not using 12%, but let us say I have got 90% of this awesome thing that takes in billions of pieces of information every single day. Lets me know all kinds of things that I am not even consciously aware of.
Someone is walking down the street, and before we can even have the thought of, “How do I feel about that person walking towards me?” We have already assessed. Safe or dangerous, fight or flight. You were talking about the nonverbal part of communication. That is huge. One of the things that I have noticed, and I am going to sound like an old man here for a moment, is that with all of this advent of technology, there are generations younger than me that I think are losing the ability for interpersonal communication and understanding how human interaction really works.
Empathy levels are decreasing over time, and we know this from studies. They have been decreasing ever since the rise of the internet, and it is not the internet. It is their written communication. We used to be in the same room and touch or hear each other, or even on the phone, you can get the fluctuations in the voice of someone, and you can really start to empathize with them, but you cannot do this over text.
When I was studying, I was doing an internship for my license. I was in middle school and high school, that is where I was doing it. I was trying to encourage my clients to. I am like, “You have to talk to people. You need to understand how to do this.” I said, “The problem with the text is you cannot control how someone reads it.” In the English language, and I am sure in Greek also, some words get used, and depending on how the inflection someone puts in it, whether they are smiling or not. Something that we all say way too much is, “Shut up. Be quiet.”
I will use shut up. If I am talking to you, and I am like, “Shut up.” You have so many clues that I am not telling you to be quiet. It is disbelief. It is whatever. If I am like, “Shut up.” You get all of that. You see someone, and they are not smiling. You could tell, you are like, “There is all that nonverbal.” As you said, men, we are taught that we are stoic, do not show any emotion. Here is the thing. You probably figured this out. Our bodies are incredible machines for self-regulation.
We have two options. We can deal with our emotions appropriately in little things, or we can push it down until it explodes like a soda bottle that you shook up. When it explodes, it tends not to be good. All of a sudden, you ask one of the people in your men’s group, “Tell me, how did you feel about it?” All of a sudden, there could be yelling, screaming, and usually a lot of crying. Why? It’s because it was a whole lot of stuff that they actually probably should have dealt with. Now the body goes, “That is it. We are done.”
It is true. It takes a lot of courage and a lot of preparation to really start and go out there, out of your way, and learn something new, learn a new skill, learn how to express yourself. Again, this is what we wanted to do in the first place. Present ourselves authentically, be loved, be recognized for who we are, not about who we should be. Not being recognized for the stoic face, for the false thing, but being recognized for who we really are, like someone who loves sports, who has friends.
The Importance Of Self-Reflection And Curiosity
Now that you have been doing this work for a while, Stefanos, what are the things that you have discovered about yourself?
Plenty.
I am sure it is a short list, but just a couple.
Every time I am speaking with someone, I am learning something new. I am learning to get perspectives that I did not have before. This is one thing that I did not know all, and I cannot see the world. I am biased, I do have bias. When I hear someone speaking, I am trying to be open. I am saying, “This is an option as well. I might want to consider this option also for myself.” This is the first thing.
The second one, and this relates to the fact that I was always learning, reading. I was a smart guy. I am not sure if I am a smart guy now. I thought that I had certain answers. I realize when I am speaking with others that I do not have their answers for them. Sometimes advising someone can be the wrong way to go about it because they are irrelevant to what is really going on with their lives. We do not have all the facts. Even if the other guy is your brother, your mother, whoever, you do not have all the facts of their life, of what they want to do, of what it is that they are trying to get to. The second thing I learned is that I do not know all the facts to give advice. I do not have this.
I have used the analogy before on this show that you look over at your neighbor’s lawn and you see it is all green, and you are all envious about how beautiful his lawn looks. You do not know what that stuff in his life is that is fertilizing the lawn. That same person who you look at their beautiful green lawn, looks out, and they see all kinds of piles of fertilizer that they are like, “My yard is a mess. My life is a mess.”
You are right. We do not know everything that is going on. A great thing that I do all the time is get curious. Curiosity is a great thing. If you lead with, “I am curious, I want to understand more.” It is amazing what one person says to the other person, “I want to see you, but I do not know. What I see, I realize there is much more.”
There is an iceberg. Here is what you see, but there is everything under the water. “Tell me more. Let me know.” That can be so cathartic and opening for someone to go, “Someone actually wants to know,” not, “How are you?” “I’m fine.” You look in, and you are like, “No, they’re not fine.” One of your friends, you look at them, and you are like, “No, you’re not fine. I can tell. I know you.”
You can read the signs.
You ask them, and then sometimes you crack them open like a walnut or something like that, but then they feel better. It is scary. Look, there are the things that we want to talk about, but we are afraid to do it because we do not know what is going to happen. Oftentimes, I think when we do it afterwards, it may be really messy as you are going through it, but afterwards, you are like, “I feel so much better.” This is great. How can people find you? How can they work with you?
The best way to find me is through my website, which is MindfulLife.Coach. Where are all my details? I have an offer for people who are tuning in, and they are interested. I have a free guide on my website. It is called Five Ways to Be Happier and More Fulfilled Today. I have collected five mini innovations, five tools that anyone can do right now and start feeling better in about a week. It is about building some good habits. This is an offer people can get through the website. It is free. This is the best way to get in touch with me.
I want to thank you so much for being on. What a great conversation, and I love the work you are doing. Please keep it up.
Thank you, Zander. It was so nice being with you.
I want to remind everyone that if you are ready to begin your epic journey, go to EpicBegins.com. As always, remember epic choices lead to the epic life that you want.
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About Stefanos Koutsoumpis
Stefanos Koutsoumpis with a Ph.D. in Physics and over a decade of experience as a scientist and researcher, spent years achieving success on paper. Later, he transitioned into business, working as a certified Project Manager (PMP®) in multinational IT corporations.
His own search for flourishing led him to Mindfulness and Positive Psychology.
These practices didn’t just improve his day-to-day life—they transformed the way he approaches every decision, relationship, and challenge. True growth comes from within, and over time, he rediscovered his own personal growth again and again.
Now he is helping men who are successful on the outside but feel like something is missing on the inside, to feel happy, content, fulfilled without giving up on what they have built on.